How To Have a Battle Free Divorce - Kiri Maponya


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We have a fantastic

interview for you all today and it's something about something that a lot of people have really struggled with in their lives and it's caused them great distress and trauma and a lot of people see this as the worst time in their life and it's about divorce. Our interviewee carry today talks about how to take the trauma, the battle out of the divorce, and has some fantastic, wonderful advice for our listeners on a different way to see divorce, a different way to handle divorce, and I really think it's revolutionary. Let me introduce her to you. Her name is Carrie Maponya. She is a prominent divorce coach, transformational speaker and the creator of the battle free divorce coaching system. Curious, committed to using our skills to make a positive impact in the life of everyone she touches. That really comes through and just our interview and talking to her.

She's really amazing. Her mission is very simple. To change the way we settled the divorce and custody battle by taking the battle out of the process, thereby mitigating the unnecessary pain and suffering that's at the heart of most divorce and custody conflicts totally from her accreditations and personal divorce experience carry understands what her clients were going through and as such, she's able to address the whirlwind of concerns, providing clarity and sanity, so needed, and then helps them workout realistic options leading to positive solutions. Carrie has always been in the healing profession before building your coaching business. She worked as a pharmacist for over 15 years. She holds a bachelor of pharmacy degree from the University of Limpopo in South Africa and a master's degree in pharmaceutical sciences from Florida a and m university like all health professionals. Pharmacists are trained to put patient care, patient outcomes at the center of their work.

No one's ever happily unwell and medical professionals are highly skilled and guiding patients to navigate their way through their pain, illness and concerns with compassion and finesse. These are the same skills she now brings to her. Practice carries also a devoted mother to two amazing kids. Her 11 year old son and 24 year old daughter, she is also a health nut and bolts to keen sense of adventure from green juice, slurping an aerial yoga, the hanging out and the sound deprivation. Floatation takes to name, but if you can't wait for you to meet her, let's get started.

Hi and welcome to make love not war. This is Tara Harrison, a licensed professional counselor and relationship expert. This is her husband Jeff Harrison. Have no qualifications whatsoever. Just a normal dude. And today I'm here with Carrie Mahonia and she does battle free divorce coaching, which in itself makes people wonder like what can you have a battle free divorce? Is that even possible? So yeah. So welcome to the show. Thank you so much for being here today.

Well, I'm just does. I'm excited. I think it's an endo statement. So I'm just on ads and then she gets invited me to be on the show. So I'm looking forward to our conversation and see where we go with it. So yeah, I'm excited about being here.

Well, awesome. Well always want to know what inspired you to get into battle free divorce coaching from being a pharmacist before that.

I know, right? Um, so that, that was an interesting journey. So I went through about, one was, as you probably could have guessed, and it was one of those contests at once, right? It was a study elements towards, oh, I had a daughter then she was about maybe six or seven. Okay. Yeah. And my initial, my initial experience, I mean even actually it's throughout the whole process was the one who was shock and disbelief and confusion, right? Because I, I couldn't understand like, like people do. That's right. And the bigger part of that confusion and the shock was I think I had to do a lot with the cultural differences, right. I came from a totally different culture where things I did was, was, were handled differently by the way, literally like a family matter, right? He gets mediated at home. It just, when I was going up right now it's different.

So I'm from South Africa, so we and I, I like to say I come from family of mediators even though they were not professionally trained, but my parents are I guess the first pace makers I'd never known right when there's issues in the family and extended families, friends, they come over our house for guidance. Right. And so I think having grew up in a family environment like that and the cultural understanding that we needed things and then coming over here being told I had to court never been told before, but it was just like, why do I need to go to court? I didn't get that. And it was, I guess it was so much confusion and shark also. Right. And, and I'm the attorney for the longer, the shorter version, but that would have gone through all of that. But I would figure out a way to get to about that. Maybe if it's relevant to a conversation, but at the end of that journey, you know, when had a chance to look back, but basically my healing journey and have the chance to look back and realizing really with what I knew, right? That if,

if there was some stability in the process, like whatever we're dealing with, all the struggle, the fights could have been avoided, it could have been settled, assaulted a much better way, and really began to plant the seed with Msls, right? To want to show that, uh, people to know that divorce doesn't have to be that way. Right. Diverse does not have to be one of the worst things that could ever happen to you. Right. And, and like really, that's what began to be planted in me knowing that there is, there is another way that we can resolve this type of conflicts without losing ourselves in the process. And so that's how that one came about and that was years ago. Yeah.

Yeah. So you really come from a mediation type of thought process. And so how long. So how often would in your in South Africa, is it a common thing to have divorce and to go through this mediation process or was it pretty rare?

See, I was young, but I wouldn't say it was common as it is today is a totally different sort of different environments. Right. It's more like in a Western world. It wasn't everyday now, but when I was growing up it was like I, I experienced it as something that was a thoughtful process. Right. I had a 24 hours and at the end of it all they were able to work it out with, with her husband, ex husband was like, okay, you keep the house or you keep the house that could take the kids. It was amicable, right? So I make up a resolution was not foreign and the bigger part of it was the families

also helped to mediate that process. And I think maybe they knew. I don't know if it was something they knew consciously or was this a cultural thing that somehow it's better when you have people sort of advocate for you, right. People who are not sort of in, it's like you are emotionally that they can see things better, right. And come up with some like a workable solution as opposed to you being in the middle of it and trying to advocate for yourself. So we caught up in all of that. So would you pick somebody to mediate for you? Like you pick your mom and he picks his dad and they go work it out. How does the process work?

Well, in my family it was more of you have people who are designated mediators, so to speak like that. Some people who are just good at this stuff, they'll be Julie, like your, your uncle, somebody, one of your uncles or your aunts. Um, there will be the ones who probably go in Israel. Rarely it will be a parents. Usually they bring the information back to a pen. It's like, okay, this is what was agreed upon. Like how do you want to move forward? There will be like, it's very interesting and this in my family distilled so that you will have people what sort of designated individuals to handle whatever the situation is sort of a comedian. That situation where you. So you normally didn't pick like the family, like the elders, like know we still had that, that, that structure of having the eldest in the family so they were trusted with, you know, the trusted with that responsibility I guess we're hoping with age comes wisdom kind of type of thinking. So I think that's the biggest part of where that came from. It wasn't like really huge. I mean you can tell them what you wanted, right? What you'd prefer it and then they'll go and negotiate for you to make sure like what. But also it has to make sense like both ways.

So was marriage a legal thing? I mean, would you have to go to the courts at some point or something to

right to resolve it, right. If you had a legal marriage, right? I mean it's, I'm part of the country especially because I think they still have those tribal mattresses or cultural marriages. But in more urban settings, people still write legal marriages. Absolutely. Just so you also have to go to an end result of that as well. But it's not like fighting. I guess it's more than I've ever been to the court in that sense, but I'm guessing it's more like presenting the final agreements and so that your marriage is legally dissolved.

Yeah. So you work it out with your community first. You get it figured out. You have all this support within the community. So divorce isn't so isolating. When I really picked up on the statement, you said divorce doesn't have to be the end of the world, and I think that that definitely in western culture it feels like it's the end of the world because you're so isolated during a divorce, you lose your friends because often the friends or couples, friends, and sometimes your friends turn against you. Your family may not agree with it. So you have that. All of that going on. You lose another of family

if that family isn't able to stay connected with you. And so divorce is this huge loss, which of course it already has because you're dissolving a marriage, a partnership, but, but even more so it's devastating for people. And so I wondered about your experience coming from South Africa and divorce being so much more acrimonious where everybody works through it and then maybe you go to the courts to present your final decision, you which you've already worked through versus like you're just hit with this harsh court system. And before you've even talked to anything through, what was that like for you?

It was, I mean to say it was confusing and overwhelming. It will be to say the least because being your first experience, right? And not even knowing that that's what you're supposed to do, but because, you know, because we had a. I think my biggest thing was not only just that he was, but he was the custody elements part of it. Right. And to me it wasn't a simple why can I just have my daughter just go get it? Like what is a big deal? Right? Uh, one of my best friends who was from here having to expand to me that if you do something like that, that's going to be called kidnapping where you're going to end up in jail. And I'm like, it was oldest, you know, different nuances and ways of going about it that I did not know that was like, that way more overwhelming than anything else.

Yeah, it was a very, it was a very harsh, like really harsh experience for me. And because I didn't understand the system, I also felt victimized by the whole system and my ex. Right. But it was just, he has a hush was I felt it was a victimization if this, it felt like that and a lot of confusion and not understanding. I guess I kept asking the same question, but why? What does it have to be this way? When does they have to do it this way? Then that there was a question that kept remembering. Asking Myself American. Yes. Yes. And I think that's what made it fun. And I know what I mean, like looking back at it. Right. But it wasn't fun back then, but what made it so dramatic? Right. But made, it was so dramatic. It was so intense and looking back at it like it had to be that way.

But back then you know, it I didn't understand. But him being from piano, he had a lot of friends in the legal system. It was getting very good advice. Right. And he really knew, I liked to say he knew how to play the game. Like as you know, he had a strategy, he had a plan but not only that was masterful at executing, which is something that say, well it was quite interesting in the same thing I see with my times, you find one person big, just totally emotional, distraught and says caught up in that emotional Nami and you find another partner who even though they're hurting, but the more strategic. Right. And so they can bang like I'm planning on going to execute. Right. And I, that was my situation. I actually had a couple like that. So interesting to me. You have so much of my own experience.

And so I him was, what's that side of it, to the execution, the planning, the strategic part of it, and then also having inflammation, right? And knowing what to do because he had people advising them what to do. People who work in the legal system, like sheriffs, like get out. He was also very good at making friends, his, his personality. So, and then on the other hand I was caught up in my emotional storm and being lost and confused. So it was interesting like looking back at it, it was a pretty interesting dynamic. Right? But the beauty about that was, you know, you grow from it and I think I'm here and this is part of what helped me through the journeys I'm here because I was able to see the gifts and that experience and that's why I can sit here today and some to you guys about it, right?

Because even though it was bad, but I always say the greater the pain, the gift does not disappoint you normally be a bigger and is one thing that I'd love to impart to my clients. And I go, anybody that I share this with like, yeah, life throws us quote unquote lemons, you know the expression, make lemonade out of it, but more than make lemonade is, it's if you really take a step back, right? And really look at it and, and like really go into a process of inquiry. You will see that those reason why you had to go through what you went through and why things had to be the way that way, like it made perfect sense. Like the way I had to be that ignorant and he had to be that so prepared and so in front of the process so that I could really truly experience the intensity of pain, all of it. And so I can hit that rock bottom actually what I'm called rock bottoms bottom, and then so I can rise up out of it and become a better person on the other side of that and the person who is sitting here with you today.

Wow. I mean basically on an existential level, what you went through gave you your purpose in life, where you are now and you're really driven to help other people not go through the same experience that you did and to be that support system for the entire family to advocate your basically your mom, your dad, everybody who is a mediator and your family, you're. You're bringing their spirit and to this through you so you're not only respecting yourself, but you're respecting your culture and this different way of seeing divorce and I think that's really powerful.

Well, I haven't thought about it that way. It's such a beautiful perspective. It does painted right? Because it really speaks to where you stand. You are. I had somebody say you like representing 10,000 other beings in your lineage or even more, not just you, but you're sort of the micro encapsulation of all of that experience and you sending in presenting that as a to evers when it's accepted. So that's what I heard when you said it's pretty powerful.

Yes, and that sense of community you're talking about. That's something that we're really lacking and that people feel very empty inside because of the lack of that. And so you're bringing as a cultural gift, a strong sense of community from your South African culture and you're bringing that in, imparting that upon people here that need it and this rock bottom time in their lives. Yeah.

Yeah. That's beautiful. Yeah. And I switched to a position of it. Absolutely.

Yes. So walk us through how somebody what, what point with somebody. I mean obviously they want to go, they're going to go through a divorce, but walk us how it happens is it one party will come to you and then you bring them all together. Has it worked?

Right? So it's, it's all, all of that, right? But sometimes I'll meet people who that's what I'm contemplating, right? They're trying to figure out is this the best decision for me? Right. And then of course we'll walk them through that. Helping them determine if that is the best decision for, for them. And one thing I want to, I want to stress as coaches, we don't tell people what to do, oh, restrictions to go, but part of coaching is to help clarify the process for them. So whatever decision that I'm making is made out of information and clarity.

Right? And so which I think that's like the best place when somebody is contemplating that I'd showed that's the best way to go to like maybe speak to somebody before because what happens is most little rhyming and we'll hire an attorney and filed papers before they're even ready. Right. And I think that's a bigger part of where all this chaos comes in because then when I'm ready, but not understanding that it's not only a leader, I mean you have to be ready to follow that, right? Because I like to say divorced the second to the two type courses does the album cause which has to do with the legal aspects of it. And then there's an internal state you have to deal with and the lodge and that's a part of that. And having to deal with emotions rather than other things. But, so if you, I think at that stage when you're not sure, think there'll also be a really a great starting point to speak to somebody like it was coach like myself. It kind of fight that process for you and see if it's really something that's in your best interest. Right. Um, and then that's one pads, but also with people who are in the middle,

right? And at that point maybe so overwhelm is the frustration as a contingent, annoyed everything that has to do, especially if it's a contentious situation, which normally it is because there's emotions involved in that. But that's a big part of why that mess. Right. And, and, and that is when it happened. The first for me like my, the basis of my work is really helping people deal with their emotions. Right? And I, I, because I felt like if you could get the emotions that I can't get them an fiddly but get to a point where they can manage, right? Then people can think clearly, you know, and there is scientific evidence to back

that up, right? You finished and the neuroscience of the fight or flight mechanism that gets activated when you're in a stressful situation and how that shuts down a front left part of the brain, right? That has to do with executive function and thinking and reasoning and logic and creativity. Right? So that gets shut down when we are in a state of fight or flight. They don't walk and so that's how we can think, right? Then we can figure out. We stretch no one Boeing. And so to me, I, I, I really believe that if we can teach our clients to manage their emotions and deal with the emotions that that triggers. Right? And so if you do that, then you're able to sort of turn off that reptilian brain that's on fire in a conflict situation and then once that's turned off and you can bring back the executive part of the brain, the thinking brain back online so you can focus and figure out what am I doing, what I do, and then sometimes that takes how.

Because half the time you don't even know what's going on because I know him through that. I had no idea, right. I look back, I like, I wish I had somebody could have explained to me, held me by the hand because my attorney can only do so much, but if I had somebody like a, like a code show who could have helped with that process and helped me deal with my own emotions because that was, that was the son of my experience with my emotions and I guess. And now I'm seeing as I'm taking it to you that there was a reason because now I got so fascinated with emotions rather than. That's all I want to talk about. It has become sort of the foundation, the core of my coaching process is like when you addressing that aspect of it first. Well I think.

I think that's very smart too, because the thing is, is that most people want to just push their feelings down. Right? You know, like I'm not feeling it or they freeze, which it sounds like what happened to you, you know, you just froze because all this stuff was going on around you and you couldn't process it. And if you don't deal with the emotions first, like you said, you are still in your reptilian brain. You can't access the executive part of your brain, you can't make rational decisions at that point. And so you have to address the feelings first. There is no way around it. You have to move through it.

Yup. Yup.

Do you find that sometimes you're having to just calm people down? Like they're just irrational, completely irrational. That there, like for example, let's just say it's the wife and she's just like, I'm going to lose my kids forever. I'm never going to see them ever again. And they're just like, they're so far out there that you're like, Whoa, okay. Calm down. Is that a lot of what you're talking about?

Yeah, that is. I have a cousin who was like that. I mean, it was, it was, it was also what I was paying for expenses to witness when you, but also a very educational and very empowering moment at the same time just to see what we go through when, what did it triggered, like spear takes over the fear of uncertainty, not knowing like what does that even mean for me? Right. And when that takes over, it's like, it's one of the most incredible authentic experience in somebody. And yes, calming them down. It's a bigger part of that process. I actually have a process that I'll even take people through it. You just help them come down and. Yeah, because it's, they can hear you. It's impossible, right? Because what they're seeing in front of them is so scary and they can't figure out how they're going to make their way through that and it's very difficult for them to hear you yet.

So that's, that was telling you earlier is really fundamental focus, I guess. We can, you know, teach people how to manage women's like that. Right. And the thing fascinating about emotions is as scary as they. Yeah, that's some of the most beautiful things we can have experienced and because that's why we're even here as human beings is because we have emotions and we can experience life. Right? It's, it's that is bad. Especially the negative ones. They're not as bad. I think this has gotten a bad rep because that really beautiful things and so I. One of the cousins that I'll be teaching, it's like when emotions one on one, but really understanding what emotions and how I'm fixing it from a different perspective. Like you were saying earlier, you were talking about how you've imagined look, dog and your husband said No. It's because you have too much light behind them.

Right. You can't see the dark if you are, you can't see the light if you've never seen the dark. Right, exactly. Right.

So it's, it's, it's so. Yes. To answer your question. Yeah, absolutely. It's, it's you, you cannot talk to somebody if they're in that state. I want a good example of pride. It was imagine, it's like the brain is on fire, right? And you're like, who's going to pay you? The one in Connecticut for it's a fire extinguisher in that moment, like nice to extinguish the fire so they can come down and then say, okay, what happened to what? He got to do an assessment. Right, but first you got to, you got to extinguish a fire that's burning in the break.

So what's the process you take people through when they're in that moment of what their brains on fire. They're panicked. They're freaked out there. You can see they're about to like have a fighting match in front of you because they are so upset. How do you get them to that point to be able to start getting to that battle free point like they're. They're both in more mode usually because. Because

I'm a cortisol would work with one person. It's only maybe later if the couples are open to ids, I like to do, what do you call it? Peacemaking ceremony, but in terms of coaching is one person at a time. I see. Okay. Yeah, but usually finance, like as simple as in like breathing, but as specific type of breathing. It's very powerful. Instead of going into to come the brain, right, so one of my favorite, a breathing technique is then most alternate nostril breathing. I don't know if you're familiar with that, where basically you will close one last roll, you inhale through the other one, then you close the one that was open, you exhale through the one that was close so you going back and forth like that. And that tends to begin to calm down the brain, right? Because breathing is a very fascinating thing.

When, when was terrified, right? Is been kind of reading. We do, right? But, and so when you do an opposite breath too, that's like slow, deep, deliberate breaths like that. So it signal. So that's part of the brain that's on fire, right? The reptilian brain that. Wait, something's up, right? Because if it was really by, oh, he was really a title, because that's come from our primitive, you know, a programming so we can avoid danger. There's really fight or this one is hybrid, which is what we used to be running away from. It is our ancestors. If this really tight in front of you, when not be breathing like that, keeping that alone begins to sort of begin to sort of shut that turnouts that the limbic system, right and so to, and then that way you know that that happens in that part of the brain, the front part of the band comes back online and then you can access, right?

So that's why really accessible process. Simple. Fred is a very powerful thing and once you can get them to that place, then you know, exercise is really about letting go of the charge through acceptance and welcoming, ready. If you can accept you just woke up, whatever is happening at that moment. So if you get them to pay his wages, okay, just work on whatever's happening for you at this moment. All of it, right? It's. And it's a very. When a lender is really, really powerful process of letting go so welcoming and not denying that, you know what? My brain's on fire, I'm terrified. Like I don't know what I'm going to do. Let them walk them. All of that. Yeah. And that began to like really take power right out of that moment and settle in, settle down. It's a beautiful center in process.

I love what you said there about the. Basically you're, you're hacking your brain whenever you breathe slow. Whenever you're your brains, you're basically telling it one thing and it's wanting to do another thing I've never heard. I mean, you always hear people talking about you need to breathe, you need to do all these kinds of things to be, to calm down and all this stuff. But I've never heard it in that term that you just talked about there, which I would even kind of. It kind of goes under the new kind of talking now is hacking. So that's actually what you're talking is a, uh, we call the brain hack that you just sit there. That's, that's really interesting. I'd never even heard that before that

way of describing it. Yeah, absolutely. Because breath is a very powerful. And he goes, what is breath? This breath is life itself, isn't it? Because what happens when we die, it was just stopped breathing, right? So it's a way of bringing life back, but consciously rights and you know, knowing you're here, you're alive. So in essence you are okay because the title as an EMU, it's the part of the brain that doesn't think that. But you know what? I'm okay. Right? Um, okay. So if we could just comes out, right? It just helps things out. Right. And, and so, yes, it's a way. It's a great way also to heck. And you should try it. Like you could feel it. I need, you begin to feel you can do it for like five minutes. You begin to feel like things we can just settle. Like you begin to, I don't know if you meditate, they begin to feel like dropping into that beautiful come settled place when especially with the alternate nostril breathing exercise. It's a very powerful one.

So you. Yeah, I love that idea of the I've. I mean, I've done breathing exercises and stuff and use them with my clients and everything, but the alternate nostril one I have not heard of and I like that even more because you have to think about putting each finger to the other nostril and so again gets you out of that fight or flight reptilian brain because you're having to use some little bit of executive functioning to go, okay, this nostril, then this nostril, you know, so it engages all of those things which is really clever and you're forcing yourself to breathe.

That's another thing. That's another interpretation. That is so true, right? Yeah, absolutely. Then you slowly sort of reactivating pedal with the brain. Yeah. That's in the body and plus it's just so different. You never done that and it'd be a new sensation. So any of that kind of stuff just it just causes your brain to just change. Just like, wait a second, something's different here. What are you doing? This is the surprise egg thing. Right? So I guess the shock factor to it, was it a patent interrupt the soda speak also? Yes. Yeah, yeah. That also, this also seems like something that would work for somebody who's anxious before maybe getting on stage for public speaking or any kind of thing that you'd have. You'd be nervous for. Yup. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yep. That that could have been. Yeah, because it is subtlety when you. You should try it. I promise it. Really just you and you can tell your buddy. Just go, just, you could feel like when you just, you just stepping into that place of calm and your body. Just letting it go. It doesn't really. I love to do it for me before meditation because it really depends the meditation also because it's like it's preparing the body because it's just letting go and just opening you up like your body minds, everything about you to receive the gifts that you get from meditation as well. But yeah, it's a political breathing technique. Yep.

So when you're working with clients in your open them up to receive these emotions that they are very resistant about, which you know, the emotion of fear and panic and a lot of people are like, no, those are ones to not feel you. Just wrap them up and send them off to somebody else. Um, how, you know, I can imagine that it might be hard to talk people into like, these are okay to that you have

to feel these to be able to get through this. Yeah. That, that is so true. Because like I said, every. Yeah, I think we don't understand emotions and for good reason, but nobody's ever taught us about that. But you take meds, you take reading, but there is no emotion one on one class that I is. I went through college and Graduate School I had to learn on my own and so it makes perfect sense that we don't understand and present doesn't feel good. Right? When we are feeling that way, that anxiety, it doesn't feel good. Right. And so, I mean, one best technique that I find words, like I said earlier, it's just to allow them to welcome whatever it as opposed to telling them to, you know, it's okay. Like trying to talk them into it. Just allow them to experience what it feels like when they welcome you.

So creating space for whatever they're feeling. The thoughts, feelings, everything else just to be and which has been a fascinating, fascinating about the processes that they lead, the act of just welcoming. It's is actually the act of letting go of it, right? So the sort of like part of the same coin. So because it for most people it's just easy to work on something and if it's already happening but you know, you have to create a space where they'll feel comfortable doing that because it could be, was happens when I work on me. It doesn't, I just want to follow me, but it's such a beautiful thing if we get them to breathe and, and, and, and sort of center, welcome, whatever. I think it's one good step to get people to sort of get acquaintance, would they emotions, whatever they're feeling at that moment.

And then I should take them his entire process. But if you take them through the process of welcoming, if you already have to make sure they are ready. Otherwise it can be, you know, how it is with emotions, right? That's why you have professionals like stuff like that with that stuff. But. And then you can get them to a place where you can get them to get into, to drop into that emotion of fear. Right? And so that you can experience what's there, what's really there. Can you describe was it. And what you find with that process is when everything's energy, so going to find it as nothing. That's why they find like, oh, so what was I afraid of? Because there was really nothing at the end of the day once you dropped into it, but you have to very gentle lady depending on their emotional state, like take them through that process and that overwhelmed them with a feeling. But sometimes it's just getting them to work. Um, so you've been taking them there.

What you're talking about here with the welcoming is kind of interesting in it. And I'm just kinda thinking of an analogy of the whole thing. It kind of reminds me of like, uh, the like, just before you're going to get into a swimming pool, let's say, and it's like there's like you're touching the water and you're like, oh, it's cold, it's cold, it's cold, it's going to be terrible. When I give in, there's going to be awful. It's going to be. It's just so cold. It's so cold, but if you just go ahead and just jump in there, your body adjusted and you can now you're in it and now since you're in it you actually have to do something about it. You know, you can't, you can't sort of sit there and go, well I don't want to do it. I don't want to do. I don't. Well now you're in, you got to do something. So it's almost like you're saying, hey, you have to just take this and now once you have it you have to actually do something. So you've turned them from thinking about it to actually an active is what it sounds to me like

she's amazing. You know, some of the best analogies does it? He does. He definitely does. Yeah. That's really beautiful. I mean you, you always been such a interesting perspective to the conversation because then for people who see in terms of pictures and, and metaphors and analogies, you sort of bringing the conversation to them as well. So you making sure that everybody is sort of get something out of its own understanding. So that's very beautiful the way you do that. And I would say yes to that is yes, because you don't want to be able to do something and we all know that to be able to take action, it starts from somewhere, right? So you gotta be willing to sort of jump in somehow.

Well, in a way, yes, in a way. It's almost like you're going, you're kind of giving them a push. If you were to use the analogy of if you're just saying, hey, you got to get in, you can't just sit around here and just talk and talk and tell me that the water's cold and it's going to be terrible. You got to get going. And that's just the way it is. No. So you've. So you're calming them down, you get them in the, you know, into the process. And then what's the next step that you know, do you kind of go through the legal stuff and sort of tell them, hey, this is what you're really up against here.

Right. So that's, it's not exactly in that order, but yes, that's, that's what I called the clarity piece, right? It's puzzle. What I find is the biggest part of why people are like that. It's because we don't even know up against. Right. And especially if you didn't have a chance to prepare and you know what I remember it's different. Depends experiences depending on who initiated and who's the receiver. Right. And so it can get overwhelming and would like to say the landscape of divorce is pretty fast. Yeah. So the biggest part of that is bringing that clarity about what is it that you know, that dealing with, right, that they have to be prepared for that. That's the biggest part of it. Um, and what I see like my wife, like the technical stuff is all fine and good, but I think really where I'm drawn from, your personality is really helping people get to the heart of things, to the roots of things and then lay a foundation and then all that legal stuff that comes a little bit easier.

Like the practical things that had to call things become a little bit easier when you have a solid foundation. So it's the let's really about bringing the clarity of, you know, the big picture and of course their legal. Uh, I commend you financials, which apprentice, it's the biggest, one of the biggest thing I guess contest that it's besides kids if the money, um, so which is a big part of that equation as well, but we don't just say, okay, money, like what does that mean to you? Right? And what do you want? Like that's the biggest part of coaching, trying to get the, kind of clarify what is it that, what, what they want and why. The one thing, why is it important for them to have that right? And that helps you help them map out that path of you know, where to go. Right? And then, but if you're not clear just all over the place, you're doing it because that's what somebody told you. That's why you have to do what does that mean for you. Right? And that's why like my process before actually taking them through the coaching process is establishing really the bigger picture, like what, what do you really want? Right? And at the end of it, how do you want to look back at that experience?

So using Jeff's image of the pool, you're teaching them to swim before you push them in the water right here, but in your mate. So it's making it comfortable. Um, I'll go back to comfortable, comforting experience because you're there, you're kind of holding them and you're telling them, look, you can swim. I'm going to show you how you can swim. And actually you learn how to swim yourself. I was just here advocating for you along the way and you're empowering them through the process.

Nope. That's another way to get it. Yep. Yep, Yep, Yep. And yeah, and then everything else wouldn't. He becomes that, yes. That's the biggest part of it, right? So them deciding, okay, this is what a one. And this is why when somebody has to come from a case, what they were able to drop in, right? Because you can make that decision being just overwhelmed by emotions. This is really where a lot of people make that decision from. And that's why there was so much conflict. Right. It's, it's a big. There's a lot of conflict has to do with us again, Bushnell justice and so yeah. Yeah. So we think, oh I didn't know that. How do we fight? So maybe we will feel better. I mean because I think one is to make ourselves hold in whatever form. Right. And so, and I think the biggest part of it is because we don't really don't know what we don't know and I like to tell my friends that I give them that like, like really we all are doing the best that we can try and figure out life, but it will really with no scripts because we already in the script as we go basically rides and and so we all at some level with the best that we can with what we have to talk with.

Right. Then along the way, we get better and better perspectives point of view. We grow a little bag, but we were really doing the best that we can and and the biggest part of what I really love and honor themselves to the process and give themselves a break knowing that they're doing the best that I can before they have to work with. You said something really interesting about the emotional justice. I can just envision the wife comes in and she says, know cheated me. He

did this. I did nothing wrong. Now I have to go through this. I did everything right. How do you get them out of that thought process of it doesn't matter if you were right or wrong, it's. This is where you're at.

So the beauty about coaching, the tactical side of coaching is helping the clients focus forward what we'll call focus forward. Right. Okay. Has that happened? Right. And, and like what am I. that's a good question because one of my favorite quotes that I've had was from Nelson Mandela. The day that he was coming, little is coming out of jail and he was saying when he was walking like towards the gates from the, you know, that we lived in his last years, said he was working through the gate once the gate and he remembered to himself that if he didn't forgive and let go, right. And does him onto the anger and resentment, whatever you could have felt about that experience just a little bit in prison. Yes. President herself. Yes. And, but the thing about, uh, you know, that type of, that type of president is not only the mental because it impacts, it impacts your life in so many different ways.

Right. And so a good question that we asked them is how do want to look back? Are there that experience, right, that sort of help them begin to. Because the whole idea is to get them to refocus. Right. Again, not to say that what the imagined validates what they're feeling. Right? It's. Yeah. I mean they have the right to feel that way. If somebody that you don't under you and putting you through all that mess. Yeah. You have the right to the end and it's part of that welcoming where you are like, it's always about welcoming. Welcome, welcome. Okay. Yes. You know, after you. And the beauty about this exercise of a welcoming is it allows you to let go of it and you don't have to let go of a title. That touchpoints. Right. And which is why really bring all the pain is what about tyler? Because the thing about being a touch to quote unquote, I'm going to call them negative, but they're not really negative.

They are all running lessons more than anything else. Uh, but they wouldn't be attached to that to think about having a hook your hook in into that moment. Right? And so once you hooked into your whole energy, so that's where your focus is, right? Because then you know, you got to always remember why you hate the person, where you resent that person. So everything about you or your, your is all your resources, right? It's your energy, your mental capacity that, that, that's where the are, that's where they are sort of locked in, right? And then it doesn't leave you with anything else to live the rest of your life and, and, and so, and it brings, and we know stress brings a lot of, now we know, right? Then pick up stress on the body. So it's not only a mentor but it's also on your physical, on your wellbeing.

Right. So I, you know, you get what you really get stuck. And I'll give you an example. My Yoga teacher, he always has this funny stories he likes to tell you because I don't know why, but he was telling, we we're talking about he was talking and he was telling us about this client who used to have years ago. Then one day he went over house, he gave a private lessons and he walked in on her. It was, she was on the phone, they know what are those compensations phase ones. And so, you know, he's waiting, she gets off the phone and so he come to find out she was talking to husbands and they'd been divorced. Can you guess, over 25 years. Oh Wow. And that was the only compensation of 25 years later. Oh Wow. Wow. How awful to be locked in that together for that long. Yeah, right. You're divorced, but you're still married emotionally. Yes. Yeah, but that's, that's where your resources are going and then you have to ask what would you rather them go. Right. And that's why part of helping them to a focus for what is an envision that life post to post. Also like what kind of labs do want to live, right? What kind of loved want to recreate because as a recreation process, right, what level do you want to create for yourself?

And. I'm sorry, go ahead. No, I was just going to say all this stuff you're saying here reminds me of a Buddha saying that says holding onto hate is like holding onto a hot piece of coal thinking you're going to hurt the other person.

I'm sorry. Yes, that's it. You're the one burning because it's so beautiful. You said that because that was one of the things that helped me. I'm going to say forgive, but there was nothing to forgive. Maybe I'll let me use the Lego. Right. Let go. Let go of all that experience. Like how the pain, but not even the pain. Bud. Let me give you an example. My, my daughter's father, I don't even like calling him my ex because I think exit such a bad connotation. But my daughter's father, he was the only person in this lifetime that I ever said I hate it. And I knew what that felt like. Right. And so learning those lessons like husband just articulated is really what set me free. Right? Because, and why? Because like what you just said, like we're holding a coal and you thinking that other person's boating about your other one running because when, when you really look at it, when I got that understanding, what's said, even if I told him, I went to him and say, you know what? I forgive you.

It was for you. Right? Because that was burning you up on the inside. It was a coal inside your body. Right? And so it was just like, oh, you know, half the time you hold onto stuff and the other person don't even know you're holding on to it. Or even if they knew they could kill us. Right? And, and the biggest part of that is also has to do with perspectives because from where he was coming from, he was justified in what he did. So he denied it, you know what I mean? He didn't owe me anything so. And like it was the beauty about that experience I think. And that's the thing I will say, look at your own experience, like become, what do I call it? Like a, what do you call it? Know people will go on excavation journeys.

I have to go and excavated archaeologists. Oh, right. I just have your own life. Because the beauty of others' experiences as they live, they live close. Right? And then as you look at our lab, you'll see, oh, that's why that happened. Oh, this is what this is. That way. Oh, this is why this is not awakened this way. Right. And as you can get really, I guess what I learned about that was it was more of an inward journey, right? I needed to go within myself, right? In order to heal my wounded self, right? And, and in, in was to go on that journey that I on earth to all this, this gems, right, and how was able to get that experience as one of the best things that ever happened to me as opposed to be one of the west and says what happened to me, but it takes a deliverance, you know, and you know, Pr and decisions and designing what, this is what I'm going to do.

I don't want to hold on to that. I don't want to be better. Right? But then what is it going to take from me? And part of it is that you will go within yourself and really go on that journey and be curious also. Right? Yeah. Be Curious. Like, I think part of it is will he get a lifeline? But we forget to have fun and be curious. I think curiosity, it makes it a whole lot easier. We don't take everything so personally I think that's a bigger, bigger part of why we don't know how to let go. Forgive is we take it with impressive number to make it about ourselves when in fact it's not right. It had been to us that stuff also happened through us. Right. And so it's like, I noticed that a whole lot, but it's a lot of different sort of facets like the fit in into that.

No, a lot of the stuff that you're just talking about there with the actual going through the divorce has now actually become the path that you had. It's a, that's a, a really strong stoicism thought process that the obstacle becomes the way. So think of it like you're, you're going along a path and it's blocked or whatever and you could get worked up about oh there's this big boulder or something that's in my way and it's a big problem and it's all this kind of stuff or you can just divert another direction and now that obstacle just becomes a way, you know, so it just changes your whole thing where something would look bad, but you know, there really isn't. It's not bad. It's just a matter of like you say, the perspective, you know, if you come from the thought process that nothing is either good or bad, it's just your perspective, you know. And now at first, so in the exact same process, at first you thought that going through the divorce was bad because that was your perspective. Then now your perspective is that is not bad. So which is it is. It's just a matter of perspective. It knows. So if you can be more of a of like, hey, there's nothing that's good or bad, it's just your perspective right now, your perspective is as bad. Maybe 10 years from now it's going to be

the greatest thing that happened to me. That is so true. And that was one thing that we have control over how we choose to look at something because you don't have control over what she's gonna do. Right? But then you can have control over how you will respond to that. And I think that comes from what perspective do want to bring to that situation.

Yeah. And I think that's what you're bringing to these people whenever you can sort of say, hey look, I know this is terrible right now. I get that. But it may be the best thing ever to. You're just not seeing that yet. You just can't. Yeah, you can't see it now.

Well, and also empowering people to realize their own worthiness is what you're also talking about and knowing that I'm doing the best I can. Having the compassion for yourself because what I've seen with in my work is that often people who are focused on others and trying to change how others are reacting or responding to them, trying to change other people's feelings, like you could have been really stuck on how your husband felt justified in what he did and trying to change how he felt about that. But you chose to have that inward focus and and take your own journey through that. But a lot of people struggle with feeling worthy enough to have an inward journey. You know, so having you as an advocate, having someone in their life as an advocate, I'm going back to your community and your culture. Having that, that community support really empowers people to know that they are worthy of having an inward journey. They don't have to hold onto what somebody else is doing because what they're doing isn't, isn't what's. That doesn't need to be the focus. You're worthy of that focus, you can put all that into you and invest in yourself. So trying to change somebody else, which is, you know, just like beating your head against the wall, you know, you don't deserve to hurt yourself that way, you know,

good luck. I, especially in a counseling situation like, you know, they're holding that ground. Right, right. Yeah. That's a beautiful way of articulating that so many beautiful way. Yup. So do you take these people all the way down

to the end? I mean, so if someone, your coach and you know, they come in and I mean it can take a long time for her divorce sometimes. So as that work,

it's so every situation it's, it's unique, right? And it's, it's so, and you have to list the ones you have to take to meet that person's needs. Um, and so you help them. And like I said, it's a lot of layers, but then it's identifying which one of those who want, when you want to tackle first and what's, what's most burning no for them. And then you take that and mouth to level of process. Yeah. So you can sometimes get, have a clients who will maybe remains with you, you've been close to the time that you post together, maybe you have a once a month where this song come in to check in and discuss whatever, but it's like, what do you want in the moment? Like what did we do need to work on in the moment and then you address for focus that on that. But knowing the whole picture as well, but because what happens is with people, if, if you tried to work on something I don't want to recall and it's not going to Wiki thing because then I've got to be focused. If this is what's burning, that's the, that holding. I want to get rid of the. Yeah. So being able to meet people where they are as hugely important. Exactly. Yep.

Do some of them ask you to come along to the court and be there and do that kind of stuff? I mean, is there that kind of handholding?

I've, I've, I've never, I haven't been to court with anybody but yes you want me to be the. It's something we do as well. Yeah, if that's how you want to spend your session time, right? I mean exactly, but I mean at the beginning, right. Because people feel very neat, you know, they don't even know what they're standing on, but once you know, they pick up the necessarily the skills to like stand on their own, then they would not need you to


take them to go with them to code so to speak. But yeah, at the beginning it's people like when mom is sent to be really tender enroll. Yeah.

Wow. That's interesting. So is there, is there anything that, um, that you can think of that we're missing on this whole, on, on what you do from the, the, the next steps? I mean because it sounds to me like a lot of this stuff is you're getting them in the right head space. You're allowing them to basically get in, you know, really accept the fact that this is happening to them because I'm sure some of them are like, I can't believe this is my life and this is actually happening to me. How is this, what's a typical amount of time that takes for some people, I mean obviously they're all different, but does it, I mean, do you bring them in there and it does, do you notice some of them you're like, wow, they're just not grasping this, this thing. They're really having a hard time with this.

Yeah. So that's, that's a very good and very kind of tough question because that, what you said, the last thing you said is really the key, right? Where somebody is ads and how resistant. I mean maybe not, but how less resistant they are to the process and excellent. Not even the process but to where they are. Right? Because the quicker they can accept that, the easier it makes the journey. So some people, I mean I've, I've, I've worked for example somebody and once we had thing, but like within

maybe a couple of sessions was being into like, you know, again a lot of clarity like oh got it, like that only be a 10 thing for her. But she was really anxious, was really the first time taking anxiety medication, which she was able to get off like in a short time at that time. Right. But then I had another client and it was like an uphill battle, right? Because she was so emotionally and, and the biggest part of it also depends on the circumstances, right? Some people, if there's a lot that's being contested and there's a, there's a story, right? A very deep story that surrounds that as well. So it makes the journey a bit of an uphill battle because it means you have to let go of that story. And most of the time we're not ready to let go of that story. Right. But even with that, we saw what it was like my toughest client, she began to have turnarounds.

So like what does he like with kids like that? It's just about planting the seeds and when they're ready, right, the light will come on and then there'll be like, oh, okay. I got it. Like, like they hear you, but they on here you rather hear you. And then one day like registers. But Hey, it was a little bit of a longer process because she had to come into that herself. So it all depends on the person, like I said earlier. And how deep is that story, right? And how wronged like the, the depth of how of, of wrongness is also very, it plays a huge role in because it becomes a very deep hole. It takes, some people run that took time out of, out of it as well. So I find that's like being the big determinants of how long the process going to take. It takes. A lot of patients also do get a lot of people that feel like because they're going through a divorce that their failure.

Right. And because those. Right. So he goes back to what did it meant for them right to, to be, to be married and so what are they using basically and how important that was to them. So yeah, like if it really meant a lot for them, so there will be like that feeling that I'm a failure and also the disappointment like especially when the kids involved as well, like maybe disappointing their children as well. So that's very, that's actually very common. Yeah. Because you have to mourn that dream of what you thought your life was gonna look like, right? In your child's life there are children involved. Yep. Right. Yeah. And so I think it has to deal with where you're coming from with their traits of your belief systems, your values systems. Right. The old comics because it was a very fascinating thing. It's like your whole life gets unraveled.

Like that's right. Everything you've ever believed, everything you have or thoughts, rights and, and then now you have to come to a place where you have to remake it, so to speak, sort of a renegotiation and remaking and so on. And maybe that's why it's so hard because it was like, oh my God, this is what I felt and now I've got to start thinking something else and then figure out what that is. And then redesign. That's something else, so you know, and, and I guess that's why it's so challenging to most of us, but the beauty is, and when you go back into that space of like, you know, this is just, we're just here on earth for however many yes, will they have 60, 70, 80. It's, it's, it's an experience we're here to, to learn certain things and the best way we learn as humans is through traumatic experiences like that, which is sad, but kind of how we run, right?

Something that's because to wake us up, almost like sleeping something else to shake us. Right? And so there was running that has to happen and at the same time like we have certain gifts that we are here to share with other people. So they too can continue on that path of learning. Right? So we like, we're not just here because we just randomly go punted here. Like it was a, there was intentionality, there was a reason. Well we are walking on the earth, right? And running, having a human experience, but we're just having a human experience. And the biggest part of it is emotions. Big emotions and it is what allows us to have those experiences. Right? And that it's nothing personal.


Do you see a wedding? Nothing personal you see as part of the process. Sorry. Do you see that a lot of people are, um, whenever they're going through this process, they're kinda like, well, I can't date again. I don't even know how to do that. Is that a common thing as well?

It does it in a moment in moment like this, a lot of thought that goes through your mind, right? Anything thinking like I'll never have another child again. Right? Because what does it have? Another child again, if you've got to fight over that child. So that was my. And so you have all kinds of thoughts are going to run through your mind, right? Because of, again, your perspective. Maybe we take that perspective earlier, but as you, as you heal through that process and, and especially if you make it a deliberate process, like you know what, I'm gonna yeah, I'm gonna make it to with this. Right. And so any as you work through that healing journey and then things perspective change again, right? Thanks. Become more clear. More parents realize, oh, that was just silly. What was I thinking? But it takes you having to integrate, integrate all of those different aspects of you like the one that aspects of you that needed to be to be held along the way.

Right? It's, it's, uh, because like moments, it doesn't matter what those two bullets, but difficult moments like that that bring something to that separates that needs to be addressed. And you talked about your value earlier. That was one of mine, right? And how I valued myself. And so I need to come to grips with that. And also shame, right? You've got magnified in that experience because Shane was one of my shadows and so lead into volume itself was wanting into, to bring shaming to completion. Right? So the really, I guess maybe the biggest takeaway is yeah, we both do this things, right? Whatever. But there is, there is a bigger meaning, there's a bigger reason. So if you, if you focus on asking and you don't have to know what it is, they just ask the beautiful thing about hollow life. What's his questions? I wonder is a very powerful question to use.

I wonder what this moment is. You have to teach me what's the result to me. Yeah. And the other children are very good at that. Yes. That childlike curiosity, but you bring it to this experiences and, and you know, and they'll really free you up because you were abused. So I touched like how we get attached and make it with impressive data into an angry with frustrated. Like when you really mitigate a lot of that, right? If you live from that place of one that and knowing that this is just a journey, right? This, this just is like you're going on a trip and here, but a flat tire, you're going to get all crazy. No, he just fix the tire and keep on going. But maybe that, that you learn how to do it yourself. Right? But I had to write, yeah. That understanding like it's really, it's that bad because what am I going to have hard, it's bad because this other lessons when we came here to the road and we chose them and I know you've subscribed to that and say it's not random. Some of the lessons we chose them and that's one thing that freed me a lot from that, from that pain because I wasn't like I had never experienced pain at that level.

Right. That was like that moment was, I don't know, the mother moments. I mean I've never experienced anything like that before in my life. Not that much pain and the shame that I much disappointment like you name it, it wasn't a right to buy. I kinda get that with so much reverence and gratitude. Right. Because you know, through that process I was able to find myself that that was what was, I guess what was necessary for me to go through in order to be able to find and reconnects and remember, Wham, right. And then, but not stop debt and Sharon's right with everybody else who's willing to listen. Yeah. How interesting. Thinking about, going back to what you told us about your family story being mediators, and this was your path to get you back to that purpose in your life of being in that role because you were born into it. Yeah. That's a beautiful way. He is amazing. I couldn't adapt dots. I like that. Just connected the dots. Nice. If you could go back to that worst time with the knowledge you have, what would you tell yourself?

What would I tell myself and that experience when you were going through the worst part of it? So I'll tell myself that I was going to be okay, but even better than that, I was already okay. Love that. I was. I was supposed to be in that moment. Yes. Even though that moment seemed like the worst moment of your life. That was part of your purpose. How of my journey. That's why I needed to be in then moment and it had to be that way. You have to be that intense. Right? So I can have so much. So much strength. Yes, and so much strength and be able to deep to reach deep within the depth of my bank. I didn't know existence. To find that strength, find the courage to find the resiliency.

Yeah, and going back to your quote about Nelson Mandela, what he went through and then coming out of it with such wisdom and not having to really be able to understand the power of letting go of, of that hate and letting go of holding a grudge and letting go of all that stuff. That's that journey. You don't get that unless you go through something where you have to let go. Otherwise, you know, holding onto the hot coal is going to kill you.

Yep. Yep. Bernie only deeper, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I liken that to like really put you on the sideline because you know, he likes sitting on the bench. You can't have been played right because all your energy is as trips in that experience and you have nothing left to devote it to something more meaningful and multiple filling in your life. Right. And I mean, because really I believe we're here to enjoy life as well and experience what life has to offer, right? Which is just incredible experiences and, and the fact that we have the power to choose how I want to experience that, right? I think ultimately it's just one of the amazing gifts that we have that stuffs like that, but it could choose like how going to want to go about it. Do you want to go this way or that way?

And, and, and why am I choosing that? But being a part of choosing that is knowing that just the ato fun among other things, let's do fun. Then having fun is really not being attached. So all of these, they're not letting those things one, like they read the script for us, right? We get swept, you know, we have the power of our freewill to write out one script and rewrite it over and over again. Right? And so we as one thing, we have that power of choice. So maybe asking yourself, what am I choosing in this moment? How am I, what am I choosing beverly? And whatever choice it is, what are the implications of that choice and do I like them?

You know, it's interesting. I mean if you come across really I'm talking about all of you talked a lot about worth and how you realized that you had worse than you probably didn't feel it at the time and all this kind of stuff. And, and you know, you've talked about Mandela and being from South Africa and all this stuff. It makes me. Yeah. I have some questions on your upbringing on some of that. So I mean you went through apartheid and you weren't on the European side, so how much. Because that was a profession that really was pushing down people's worth. How did you

get through some of that? Like how. I mean because you were really. I mean like that's hard for a lot of people to understand what that's like to have a government in basically feels like everybody against you. How did you like, what was that like?

So that's. See, I mean when I was I guess come into the realization I was high school going to college, like the really the real impacts of that realization and in college I had a totally different experience because I went to a school that was labeled as a radical school and so those, I guess time to get into self pity, it was more time about being a revolutionary and I'll say that was my experience. Yeah. So I don't know, like in terms of like the imprint of like being oppressed, maybe it's the, I don't know, but how I remember that experience was really in college. Like what are you being a revolutionary? Because that's the kind of college I went to were always telling you the governments. I mean I remember one time it was so tired they didn't know what to do with us.

They brought an army on campus to hang out there. You camped out. We couldn't use our sporting facilities because that's where they camped out for the whole, for the entire semester just to keep us under control because it was so rebellious and revolutionaries. So that's really kind of like my experience, it wasn't, you know, what I mean, the negative impact and that to say and also because I like, okay, maybe we had him sit education and stuff like that. Like yeah, I went through all of that, but at the same time it didn't prevent us from accomplishing, enriching, reaching the goals we wanted to reach. Right. And maybe that could be part of it as well. Then going to college and having that experience of just fighting back. So, you know, it was, it was trying to make it a little. I'm sorry.

Okay. I was just gonna say, so you're almost on the other side of it. You actually saw the good results of your fighting the power basically, and you saw it actually happen.

Right? Right. Yeah, exactly. Things like that doesn't mean that was also on the other side of it in terms of everything inferior, but whatever it was, you know, we're learning learnings, you know, they got educated and then we came here. Right. Getting into higher education. So as bad as it was, but I also have the adults, like I said, the other side of it as well. Are they experienced as well? So yeah. Yeah. But I mean this is not to say there's not a whole lot of poverty. People being held back. I mean that's just what I've noticed that like the impact, it was noticeable right in. But I also just maybe I grew up in the middle class family, so sort of extreme poverty, right? Because parents and my mom was interesting. My Dad was a school principal so we were middle class. We always had and also come from family or very affluent people, right?

To have uncles who are entrepreneurs and one of my uncles, you've probably be below when you see him, he is one of them was, was one of the most successful black business men in his time and build a wall. It's a way to model so you don't go to South Africa. So you will see that. And that's kind of the legacy also came from of possibilities as well. And you know what I mean? So I guess all the stuff, all the negative stuff was sort of facets in my little silo, in my little bubble by what was happening around me, I was exposed to a better successful people in education wise and also business wise, I come from a family of entrepreneurs. Very successful entrepreneur was as well. So I guess I knew that I didn't have affects students like I'm experience compared to most people see what's this waste from an angle of possibilities as opposed to Oh yes, it might keep you.

That one I had, I also had opportunities as well. So did you have a passbook and all that where you'd have to go? Oh no, that stuff wasn't there when I was growing up. Like when you were to walk around with your id kind of type thing. Like no, that was. But also remember I lived in the northern part of the country. It was a bit calmer, right? All this burden, what's happening. Like in Johannesburg area, but when it was growing up it's most of the stuff. We're no longer there. You didn't have to walk around with the idea and stuff like that, but the thing that was had was the segregation that is the northern part of the country. So like in restaurants you could buy but he can sit in, you want me to take outs, stuff like that. And I remember I was in high school and can use the library.

I went to make copies. They told me, nope, because you're black. I'm like, Oh really? You know, but so, and will the theaters, like we had an old mini in the corner over there, you can use the other ones. So. But yeah, it wasn't, I don't know, but for some reason it wasn't like the end of the world to me and maybe because I was exposed to at a vision and a dream. Right. And then I just wanted it to be something bigger than what I was. And I was maybe that's another thing. I was like, this is on that focus of just trying to do what I wanted to do at the same time. And like I said, I had opportunities. I came, I was like that. I wasn't some people whenever, never the opportunity is to go to college because maybe their parents couldn't afford it and stuff like that, you know, we had opportunities, right. And maybe that a little bit sort of balanced that out. You could say.

I can see also how that led you to the mindset of and coaching also of being able to find hope in something that could seem hopeless and being able to find opportunities in situations that it feel overwhelming that you can't move out of this, but actually indeed that you can and you can empower, feel empowered and stand up, but you need that community support. And you had mentioned in our initial phone call something about a summit, some kind of community support summit. I'd like to ask you about that. Oh, you put me on the spot. Maybe it's in development, but what is the idea of assignment? Let's just, let's just go through that. So the idea is

obviously the battle free diverse perspectives and I think it's, it's spawned from at this, this, this recognition because I, I think, uh, especially in the Western world, we sort of have this, I want to say it's mindset, but I guess we would think of divorce within gay know wall at some points. So I don't think that they issue of, you know, you can have mediated divorce or you know, of divorce, like all this other options. I don't think people are sort of aware that you have other options, right? And also, but most importantly that you have a choice of how you want to, you want to resolve this. Like you're not, you're not just resigned to the one way of doing things that other ways of doing things. And so the whole idea is to, one, to sort of put that idea out there that you know, that it's a possibility, right?

Because you have options. You're not stuck with this. And uh, but also bring. And so it's built on that. And then bringing in different experts to talk about like, like several walls and things like that. And also the preparation part, like how do you get, because part of really being, knowing like paddle, that salary pad we talked about earlier is also being prepared, right? It's a legal process, was as intentional, the inward and outward preparation journey, emotional and then knowing what to do. You get your finances straight and things like that, so it will be looking at all of that stuff, but the key really is to give people like to know that you do have a choice made litigation and fighting is not the only way. Yeah, it is one way that's the way we accustomed to. Right, but there are other options and but most importantly you don't have a choice. You can choose where you want to go with it.

I think that's a huge theme of what you've been talking about is that power of choice and knowing that you can't really get to your choice until you have all the information. Also, until you honored, acknowledge your feelings and then you have compassion for yourself and that gets you to that place to be able to make a choice for what is right for you and not just react to a situation.

Right? Yeah, because that's what's happening. I think that's, that's a key. We react when we're in situations like that, so we're not thinking right in making intentional decisions because we feel like we're pushed into a corner and so that's a key to taking the reaction out of it and bring him back the capacity to respond.

Yes. So reacting. Yup. Beautiful. And also I love the idea of the summit because going back to community, everyone's coming to the summit because they're all in the same place in their lives and that brings all these people together and so not only are you getting all the, you're getting all the connection, you're taking that feeling of isolation now that out of the divorce process that so scary for people and you're creating this community which is what's so needed.

Right, exactly. Yeah. No, that was another thing, that sense of community. It's, it's a very. I think it's a very powerful thing. I mean, you can think about the communities that you belong to, right? It doesn't matter how big or small they are, so and especially one that naturally. Right. Then they all have the same mission and very supportive. So yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Well this is,

it's been a wonderful conversation. Thank you so much for sharing this with us and I think that your idea of the battle free divorce itself is revolutionary or just a revolutionary at heart, you know, from, from your roots all the way up. And so I mean this, this is amazing and I think that this is going to go far in your life and it's something that people need.

Well, thank you. Thank you. I'm glad you feel that way. It's always great to get a different perspective, you know, as opposed to your own head. Exactly. Which is what coaching is about, right? I mean, so yes. Getting a different perspective. So here, what people feel about what you're throwing out there. Yeah. So do you have a website or how does somebody get in touch with you? Yes, I do have a website, so obviously it's a battle for the divorce, but if it's okay with you I was going to offer something to your community. Yes, please, please. We love stuff. So I thought you guys were so good to me and I knew I was going to have fun and I had fun spending time with you sharing and you guys ask amazing questions that really sort of like just paint a very beautiful picture.

They had started on the whole, the whole topic. So out. I decided I could open up my calendar and offer some, some complimentary coaching sessions for your, for your audience, for your audience. If it's something that I'd like to explore and see how we can help them clarify. So yeah, and I'm very easy. I could just email me at carry a better outcome and then in the subject line just put more love from you. Yeah. So that way I'll know that coming from you and just put. I mean right. That's it. So simple email so that way I can, you know, I get them first, right? So if anybody's interested to explore some things to see if this is something I can wait for them, I'll be more than happy to sit down with them and we could do it on the phone by the way or skype or zoom like we're doing so you don't have to fly to New York. So as, as, as you know. But I'd like to know that your community,

that's amazingly generous. Thank you so much. And I know that, that our, our listeners will really appreciate that offer. So again, that's your name. Carry K I R Okay. And we'll have a link on our website and make more love not Okay. Cool. All right, well thank you. Thank you so much. That was awesome. Alright. Yes, I had fun too. I enjoyed myself. Thank you. As always, if you have any questions, comments, or would like to be on the show, go to our website, make more love, not, and send us an email. Be sure to subscribe to our show on either itunes or stitcher to make sure you get our shows as soon as they're available. You can also donate to this show at More love not war. If you're the type of person that likes to play an active role in your favorite shows, provide us with your email address to join our proactive newsletter. Before we record each episode, we will email you a preview of topics to be covered. You will have the opportunity to provide us with questions on the upcoming show, giving you more control. Everyone struggles with some type of issue in their lives, and this is your chance to directly ask an expert a question you've always wanted to know. Simply go to our website, make love not, and send us an email to let us know that you want to be added to our proactive newsletter. Thanks for listening.


Jeff Harrison